JOHN; Today we have some questions from Hans and his first question is... "I recently went through some books about Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj and many of the things said by Maharaj are very similar to what Datre states. I would like Datre commenting on some of Maharaj's statements.
What Datre calls psyche Maharaj calls universal consciousness. Maharaj says: "all my actions are the actions of universal consciousness appearing through my body. I do not remember something from the past and then act, it is all action in the now."
Is this the state which one achieves by consistently observing from moment to moment which Datre recommends?"
DATRE; What Datre calls 'psyche' is not universal consciousness. Apparently, what Maharaj is calling universal consciousness, is that information that is contained within your 'bubble'. Now, to begin with, you must remember all the guru's and the one you that you speak of there, all of these individuals are living lives that are very different than the lives that you are living. We are talking about peoples that have relationships, that are married or unmarried, people with or without children or pets, people that go to work every day, that are in a 'living' experience. That are living life right down to, what you call, the nitty gritty.
The guru's and the mahatma's and all the rest of them are living lives that are very different. They're living a life where they don't support themselves. They don't have relationships. They don't interact with people in the same way that those that have to get up and get the kids ready to go to school and you have to go to work and everybody piles in a car and everybody goes their different directions. Everybody's got appointments to make. You've got decisions to make all day long, in a physical construct that is constantly being pulled in seventeen different directions - all the time. These are the people that we are talking to. People who are looking for answers regarding in relationship to that 'inner' feeling of wanting to know more about the 'totality' of their being.
Now, were you to take an individual that is in an every day work a day, every day world setting and put them into a guru setting, where they didn't have to do anything except 'be', where all their needs were satisfied, as far as they were concerned, how can you relate the two situations?
If they are drawing from what they call 'universal knowingness' and living from 'that' standpoint, and you're trying to live from the standpoint of being in a body and having to maintain, not only your self, but maybe many others in an everyday existence, where MASS CONSCIOUSNESS is bombarding you from all different directions, and you're trying to figure out how you're going to be able to understand what Datre is saying, we're trying to make it simple enough, so that when we say 'observe', you will be able to more easily figure out your next 'action' or 'reaction'.
But, for someone that hasn't anything particular to do, their existence is entirely different. So, from our standpoint, its very difficult for us to relate to someone who is - from our standpoint - not doing much of anything, to those that are living in a helter skelter world existence and try and compare the two.
It is like, I take a banana and give you an orange, and then ask you, 'doesn't this banana taste good?'. And you're eating an orange. How do you know what my banana tastes like? You see, you can't do that.
Now, information that they give, is not to be thrown out. But Datre tries to bring it down through a physical construct which this one allows us to come into a physical construct to 'see' what's going on in the world. You see, we can't help you in any way, unless we know what's going on as far as a physical construct is concerned. When we come into this physical construct, we feel the vibrations of that, which you call, a body. And that body can be, not feeling good. The body can have, what you call, a headache, stomach ache, or heart palpitations or a limb that has been hurt in some way and feel the pain.
Now, to us, that's a fascinating experience. But, we stay in the bodily construct long enough that we can 'feel' what you in physicality are concerned about. You're concerned about, how to live - right now. What can I do today to ease the pain, to find my answers? That's what you're looking for. What you're drawing from - basically - is MASS CONSCIOUSNESS. You're trying to 'filter' through that which you have picked up when you're 'out' of the physical construct - in that which you call sleep. You bring back information and the first thing you do, in the morning, get into a physical body, your feet hit the floor and its pretty hard to maintain the information that you've set before yourself. In which direction you want 'this' life to go.
So, if they're drawing from that which they call 'universal', and living in 'that' state of existence on the planet - they're not living the same lives you are.
Now, you asked about being an OBSERVER. Being an OBSERVER helps you understand what you've set up for yourself. Because, all day long you are giving yourself, signs and signals to follow. And its very difficult, but, if you're driving down the street and something catches your eye, and you look at a sign - even one that you may have seen before - and it has some information on it and you get this 'ah ha' feeling, you know 'you' put that there. Nobody else put that there. Sure, somebody put the sign up and put the words on it - they didn't put the words on it. The words are nothing but 'symbols' - 'you' translate them. You're telling yourself something. That's being an OBSERVER.
But see, that is the way 'you' need to function in your physical body. But, your bodies and the way you live, you're not going to be able to compare 'your' life to that of a guru. You're not protected, you're not fed, you're not clothed. You have to get out in the world. That's two totally different existence's. It is as if those that live the existence of guru's live in... they could be on Mars, because, their existence is 'that' much different than the existence that you have to contend with every day. But, by being an OBSERVER, you can help your self. But, it is 'harder' for you, living your physical existence of the work a day world. So, continue.
JOHN; He continues on and asks... "At a question Maharaj says: "What you are describing is God. Where there is a universe there is also its counterbalance, which is God. My world lies past these two."
Datre, would you say that this is a fair description?"
DATRE; We have said this before, God, as you see a God or a Buddha or any other symbol to be followed, worshipped, whatever you want to call it - that is planetary. That is not the Universe that we speak of, that is not anything in existence. That God etc.. universe is 'man made'. And that is fine, because people need to turn to someone or something that they feel will give them answers.
So they prey to God or they pray to Allah or whoever, because they feel that that is someplace that they can get answers. But that all came because of the 'fear' of being in a physical body and being out of 'connection' with YOU. The YOU that 'you' are, is that which you are separated from in what you call this physical existence.
So, you're calling for help, you're calling for answers. You're lost, you're afraid and so, you have constructed a God, an Allah, a Buddha whatever to help salve the fear. Continue.
JOHN; And he continues on and say's... "At another question Maharaj says: "Of course we live in one world, but I see it as it is and you not. You see yourself in a world and I see the world within myself. You see yourself being born and dying. For me it is the world that comes and goes.
You are convinced that you are born in a world of pain and suffering. I know that the world is a child of love which has its beginnings, its growth and fulfillment in love. However, what I am goes even deeper then love."
Datre, can you clarify this? Is it really so that when you know the truth that the world is within you and it only appears to be outside? I sense this is true but it is extremely hard to grasp."
DATRE; It is very hard to grasp. That is one of the things that we are trying to help you to understand. These are 'your' pictures that you are putting in front of you. This is what you want to experience. You'll say, 'no I don't'. But it is, because what you are doing is setting up 'experiences' for your self. And you are setting them up for learning and for understanding.
You could not learn what you're learning, if you where not in physicality. You see, you talk about love - love is a 'bodily' emotion. Hearing, taste, touch, smell - these are 'bodily' emotions. Belief systems - body. That is 'not' YOU. The YOU that 'you' are does not contain those emotions. In order to experience those emotions, that little portion of YOU was put into physicality for that experience to be gained. Those that are in the Universe have different ways of learning - that they figure out for themselves as to what they want to do and learn and how they want to learn it. They have 'perceptions', but, to figure out how I could 'perceive' this and understand it to a greater extent - take a small portion of me and put it into physicality and I have that experience through osmosis. Because, you are never 'disconnected' - you still are 'you' and the YOU that 'you' are is 'you'. But the YOU that 'you' are can not - in it's totality - experience physicality. Continue.
JOHN; And his final question is... "Somebody asks then: "when the world is created out of love, why is there so much pain?"
Maharaj answers: "That is only so from the point of view of your body. But you are not your body. You are the immeasurablness and infinity of your consciousness. Do not base your judgment on incorrect assumptions, then you will see the things as I see them. Pain and pleasure, good and bad, true and not true are all relative idea's which you should not see as the ultimate truth. They are limited and temporarily."
Maharaj realized himself through a very strong desire to learn the truth and constantly stating: "I AM" by doing this forcing himself to continually live in the moment of now. Maharaj also had a guru who guided him on his way.
Datre, I have a strong desire to know the truth and am applying many of the things you say in every day life, which I find to be helpful. Do you think a guru who gives you some personal assistance is necessary or are the today's energies along with general help like yours, sufficient?"
DATRE; That is an 'individual' decision that we can not make for you or anyone else. What you feel, within your very being, is what you need to follow. In other words, if you think that by following a guru and his teaching, you will attain what you want to attain - that is up to you to find out if that's what you really want. It can be gained - either way - because it builds. Remember one thing, there is no such thing as "the truth" - because, as you each have a separate set of individual finger prints, so have each of you your own 'truth'.
You know, you can sit at the feet of a teacher for years and years and years, but unless you have an 'experience' to make those words come 'alive', so that you can 'own' them, they still remain 'words'. That is why, someone that is a teacher who is teaching about a foreign country and their government and how the people live and all of the rest of it and teaching from a book and have never left where they're teaching from the book, have experienced only through the words. But, the individual that is teaching that same country and goes and lives in that country, and experiences the taste, the touch, the smell, the seeing, the hearing, in that country, is far more enriched than the one that just has the words. Because, everyone of your senses is an individual recorder. So when you take all your senses and experience through every single one of them, how much greater 'that' experience is then experiencing through the 'eye's' only.
It is up to you. Do you want to have the experience in its 'totality'? It is something that is going to have to be your decision.
I would like to put something in here at the end. Probably helping you to understand, from the point of everyday existence, how we perceive your physicality. And we'll do it in a very simplistic way.
Now, this is one way you can look at the physical existence and your experiences in it. The 'total' YOU is sitting looking at a movie screen of a picture that is being shown. The YOU that 'you' are becomes fascinated by the picture and all the things that are happening in the picture. And the YOU that 'you' are says to itself, 'I think I would like to make myself small enough that I could crawl into the picture and be a part of it - instead of just 'looking' at it'. 'So, if I take a 'portion' of me and put it into that picture, how can I do that to experience what I'm seeing?'
A physical body was designed and animated and it grew into something that could be inhabited, shall we say. This little 'portion' of YOU - in the morning - goes into a physical construct and experiences the movie. Instead of just sitting there and just 'looking' at it, it actually becomes a 'part' of it. It discovers that they are the writer, the director, the audience - the whole thing. And this becomes a very fascinating project. But, because of the duration of 'time' that you have been in physical bodies, you no longer are able to distinguish who is 'what' and 'where' you are and what the purpose is and all the rest of it.
The 'purpose' was to EXPERIENCE. To see if this little animated critter in physicality would be able to function in something that had 'dimension' to it. The thing that happens is, when you go to sleep at night, that little 'portion' of YOU - shall we say - disengages and looks at the picture from a different standpoint. It goes back and 'connects' with the 'totality' and views from that vantagepoint and sees the options available for 'experience' and expression.
So, the little 'you' that goes up there and watching the picture says, 'oh, I'd like to have the picture go in this direction'. Because there is no 'original' script that you have to follow you pick the portion that 'you' want to experience and, satisfied with your choice, go back into the physical body when it wakes up in the morning and 'you' begin to set up 'your' motion picture the way 'you' desire it.
Now, if you get to the point where you do not have total control and loose the focus of what 'you' have set for the picture, the way 'you' want it, you're going to have a mess - because you're not going to achieve what 'you' want to achieve. Its simply because, when you get back into the physical body, its very difficult to keep in touch with what 'you' have decided 'you' wanted to experience.
And that's where MASS CONSCIOUSNESS comes in, because you are bombarded with all of these thoughts, all of these images, all of these situations, all the bodily trauma and all of this other that goes on the minute you step into a physical construct - that you become distracted. And you'll say, 'well I think this is the way its supposed to go'. Then you try that and it doesn't work. 'Well, maybe that wasn't exactly the way I thought it was supposed to work'. 'Well, I'll try it again and I'll do it this way'. And once you've got it and you say, 'alright, now that part I got, that I understand - that experience is mine okay, that's finished'. Then you go back and connect up again and continue your motion picture for as long as you want to continue it.
You see, you talk about that which you call... you put on some kind of goggles and you can look around and you're in a situation. Like the one on TV where the fellow is dancing with this girl and he's in the middle of a store and they're trying to get the goggles off of him. He's so convinced that he's there dancing with this girl that he won't give up the goggles. You see, 'virtual reality' is very fascinating, because it puts you - from the point of a physical body - into a situation that you can take part in.
Now, isn't that amazing, that's what you do everyday. But you see, because you know you can take the goggles off, it doesn't bother you. 'It's an experience, so I can take the goggles off and I don't have that experience any more'. You can be in a war. You can be dancing with a beautiful girl. You can do all these things through 'virtual reality'. But, how do you suppose that concept ever came about? Because, its what you do every day. Your life in physicality is nothing more than 'virtual reality'. And the day you 'understand' that principle - totally and completely - you won't be here, because you can take the goggles off. But, that realization is a great deal harder for those in physicality to comprehend and understand, than you have any idea.
Because, taking goggles with 'virtual reality' - you're in it - but, not to the same degree, because you don't have the physical body with it's multiple 'belief' systems to function through. The key is, they're both PSYCHOLOGICAL CONSTRUCTS. They're 'mental' images projected for your experience and understanding.
But its fun to put the goggles on and 'pretend' - but, you take the goggles off, you're back in a physical construct and you don't 'pretend' any more. But, the minute you put your body on, you no longer 'pretend'. You have grounded yourself in a multiplicity of BELIEFS. That's what holds you here. Its a multiplicity of BELIEFS and they can be 'good', 'bad' or indifferent it doesn't matter. But your 'belief' system is what maintains the PSYCHOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT that you 'perceive' as real. Look at it from that standpoint and see how it feels. We thank you, we are Datre.